Friday 28 December 2012

Things I have learned about football in 2012 - No. 2

For the second in this end of year round-up of posts, a few thoughts on the Portsmouth FC situation and the response of some of their support.

Pompey Chimes Out of Tune

 
 
 
Portsmouth FC fans ought to deserve some sympathy and, for a while, I have given it to them. But over the course of the year they have started to grate with, rather than ingratiate themselves to, some fellow football fans; me included.
What has happened at Portsmouth could happen to any club. Over time, clubs have been set back or destroyed by the unscrupulous actions of local businessmen or tainted by much vaunted foreign owners. The continued failure of Fit & Proper rules for ownership should be a constant source of embarrassment to the footballing authorities and one can only hope that the financial fair play rules are more adept at preventing the financial meltdown of clubs funded well beyond self-sustainable means.
 
But as the Portsmouth administration lingers on for the second time, I have grown tired of the self-righteous bullshittery mouthed by certain supporters of the club. When questions were raised about the high profile (for League One) short term signings being made by the club at the start of the season; including a player who, prior to signing for Pompey, couldn't negotiate a deal with a club with 18,000 crowds and a salary cap to meet, they couldn't see the problem. Detractors were chided for knowing nothing about the financial state of the club and generally being "clueless". True the administrator should not be running the club so close to the financial precipice, but who really knows?
There was nothing to stop Portsmouth signing professional players to pep up their squad this season, but with many local businesses remaining unpaid or receiving pennies in the pound, the irony of signing Championship and League One players appeared lost on many. You can point the finger at previous owners, but the one constant that remains, for now, is the football club and as one commenter on this excellent post at The Two Unfortunates was quick to point out, the administrator of the football club was sitting on a £6m bank balance.
Whether the amount is a fact or not, the problem remains that yet again a football club hits financial meltdown and leaves a trail of destruction for local businesses in its wake, yet they still have funds to pay players' wages. To creditors offered 20p in the £ in the first CVA (and never saw it) and potentially 2p in the £ now, that £6m that Pompey have burning a hole in their bank account (and are using to fund good League One players) must provide great succour as they struggle to keep their business running and cut jobs.
Accusations of jealousy abounded on social networks;
 
"You were only hoping for an easy three points" - No we are looking for fairness in the way clubs are treated and special cases not being made for others.
"We have a right to sign players to be competitive; it's in the Football League rules" - What rules are these then? The Football League rules state:
"Each club shall play its full strength in all matches played under the auspices of The League unless some satisfactory reasons are given."
That is the strongest available side. If you can only sign League 2 standard players or use your youth players that is tough.
"It's just not fair on Portsmouth" - Who said football, and life for that matter, is fair? If you are dealt a duff hand, then you just have to play it. Cup finals and AC Milan at Fratton Park - shall we disregard those then, given you, in effect, achieved them through financial doping?
"You just don't understand, it is a lot more complicated than a simplistic narrative" - I am sure it is, but the fact remains how certain fans behave now they have got here is causing people to lose any compassion or understanding they might have had for the circumstances.   
I have even heard the "big club" card being played by Pompey fans this year, the joker in the pack that belies a multitude of sins. How are they measured as a big club? Crowds of less than 20,000? An FA Cup in 2008? A Europa League campaign? Two League titles over 60 years ago? The chiding of other club's fans demonstrated an arrogance that saddened me. The use of "tin-pot" to deride fans of other smaller clubs; the last desperate cry of fans who cannot accept their club has found its rightful place, below where they perceive they should be and they refuse to accept it.
Underlying the questions being asked is a belief amongst supporters of other clubs that Pompey are getting opportunities that were not afforded to clubs in similar positions before. Smaller clubs have been to hell in a handcart for less. Pompey's points deductions have been nowhere near those suffered by Luton Town or South coast rivals AFC Bournemouth. To think there was talk of an appeal against the ten point deduction when they eventually exit administration (again) was some sort of sick joke.
The fact that football remains the exception in terms of insolvencies, thanks to the ridiculous football creditor rules, is one thing, but to see varying punishments being doled out by the authorities following CVAs and administrations is quite another. Portsmouth fans should be thankful that they haven't been treated any worse. Other clubs have.
Much reference is made to the wonderful support of the South Coast club and whilst the Pompey Trust deserve enormous credit for their efforts to salvage their club, the tribal and aggressive rhetoric of a number of their supporters in defending their club and its current undertakings, leaves me cold.
I don't wish ill on Portsmouth FC, I really do hope they find a long-term solution to the club's woes, but forgive me if I cock a deaf 'un to the sanctimony. If Kevin McCabe ever properly pulled the plug on the Blades' funding, or sold out to a miscreant businessman, I'd like to think I'd accept our situation and deal with it with a greater deal of maturity and lesser degree of arrogance than that demonstrated by some of the Portsmouth support in the last twelve months.

47 comments:

  1. It annoys me greatly that some of our supporters refer to us a 'a big fish in a small pond' or that we seem to look down our noses at clubs like Hartlepool because they don't play in a 50,000 seater stadium in a fantastic town, when in fact maybe if we'd run ourselves a bit more like these 'small fish' we wouldn't find ourselves in the shit were in. This big club mentality is even in the press, a local radio presenter revealed the attandance vs Crawley and followed it up with "There won't be a bigger attendance in the division today", he'd obviously done his homework as SUFC were at home vs Scunny and were obviously going to trump that. Its embarrassing to hear some of the comments our supporters make

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    1. Thanks Tom. It is good to hear your views and a recognition of the situation the club is in. We lost one club out of League One last season whose fans derided others as "Tinpot" - I'd hate to think there is a replacement.

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  2. Pompey fan in peace here.

    First of all, every club has its supporters that spout "tribal and aggressive rhetoric" and "self-righteous bullshittery". And this is easier than ever to come across these days. The bloke who sat in the row behind you and spoke a load of rubbish all game can now have his views posted around the world and read by supporters of all clubs. So sorry about them, but we all have them. Please don't take a few people you've come across on Twitter as the norm.

    Second, I think in the summer the administrators faced quite a tough decision. Hire a squad that at least looked like one that might survive in League One, or play the kids for the whole season and see crowds dwindle to 8,000 with the subsequent drop in revenue?

    I don't think there was an easy answer, because the players we did sign (one or two excepted) have been found wanting (you shouldn't be upset about losing Lee Williamson for a start), and the kids got thrashed by Plymouth in a League Cup game. In any case, the high-net-worth individuals behind the Supporters Trust's big have been covering the losses for the past couple of months.

    All this is just a stop-gap until the ownership situation can be resolved and the Trust takes over. I could understand the vitriol if we were in the top six, but we're going to go down, mark my words. Premier League to League Two in three years will be a punishment.

    "What happened at Portsmouth could happen at any club" is also not strictly true. No other English club – as far as I know – has had the business rivals of a former owner's father attempt (unsuccessfully, thanks to the Premier League) to strip £6 million out of it. No-one else has been used as a bargaining chip in business rivalries that cross continents. It's quite a unique situation.

    Most of us are turning up, cheering them on and sighing at another defeat, but hoping and looking forward to the day – which might not be too soon away – when we support a community club that is owned by its fans. There's a lot that football fans can't control, but a supporter-owned club won't allow local businesses to be treated like this again.



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    1. To be fair Portsmouth were one of the two best teams to turn up at Bramall Lane so far this season and you will have been disappointed with a defeat.

      Although the circumstances have been unique, other clubs have been exploited and treated beyond contempt by their owners. I would just like to see some consistency in how the authorities deal with clubs.

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  3. Were Pompey and have the best fans in the world, everyone knows that? Were far better than the scummers. But come on the points deductions are getting silly, hopefully we sign some top quality players in January from the championship. I'd rather see up there with the scummers and Bournemouth than pay those local businesses. Let em wait!

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    1. Interesting you choose to remain anonymous. I can't decide if this is a Saints fan trolling and being provocative, or a Pompey fan extolling every non-virtue I highlighted.

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  4. Simple truth is far too many Pompey fans are obsessed with being back up above Southampton and don't care how it's achieved.

    Asked if the FAC win was worth this pain, a;most to a man they'll say yes.

    Interesting how their twitter feed is awash with hope of a millionaire takeover, despite them saying they want a community club and how they continue to tell everyone how they are the Wprlds Greatest Fans (tm) despite meagre crowds and rcially abusing their own players until they leave for MKD.

    Most of us on the South Coast would happily see them erased.

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  5. They are possibly the most disgusting football club on the planet. They've consistently shown a disregard to their creditors and have absolutely no shame in spending more money in the name of "being competitive".

    The OP hit the nail on the head, which was a welcome surprise. Fans of those unfortunately close enough to Portsmouth know the real truth as they have to suffer the incessant whinging, aggressive rhetoric (excellent turn of phrase, OP) and deluded fantasies about being one of the biggest clubs in the country.

    If they went under, there won't be many tears shed by those close enough to have put up with their rubbish for the past 10+ years.

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    1. You are a completely biased scum fan, don't pretend you aren't. No football fan should want another team to go out of business, no matter who they are either. You are simply a Southampton fan trying to espouse your idiotic views as those of the general majority.

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  6. Pompey fans are quick to blame the fit and proper persons test but none of them were complaining when it worked in their favour and allowed Gaydamak to buy them an F.A Cup with dirty Russian money...

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    1. I don't know who you support but let's say you're a scummer for arguments sake. Where is it Southampton fans are complaining about Leibherrs dodgy source of money funding Gaston 'they paid me loads of money' Ramirez? Or let's say you're a Reading fan, with a Russian owner looking imminent, are they questioning it? NO, because we're football fans, how can we know the inner workings of a club, especially when we were successful in the good years.

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  7. This is such a decent article and hits the nail firmly on the head. You should read some of the articles in the Portsmouth News to see the delusion you talk about. Neil Allen is a disgraceful journalist.

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  8. Terrible writing and no where near the truth. We have the best fans in the country, just ask Thierry henry and Milan players. We have continually been treated badly by FL etc. Why should we get another points deduction.

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    1. ^^^^^Troll!!! Must be?!?!?! Surely this plum can't be serious?

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  9. I can understand some fans reaction to our situation at Pompey, but to be honest we have heard so much against our club that it makes us defensive from time to time.

    We have had no say in who was allowed ownership of our club, and the F&PPT has failed us miserably. This isnt a whinge, its the truth. The last ownership was fronted by a man who a simple google would have revealed to have been questionable at the very least, with some large companies apparently refusing to deal with a company he had an interest in. Yet he was allowed to run Pompey and no surprise was then arrested on suspicion of fraud or something. He says he is innocent, who knows. It was his company CSI, who owned Pompey along with some other sporting interests, which went into admin,(by Mr Chanrai)eventually causing us to follow.

    It is a horrible feeling to have the name of the club you love dragged back through the mud yet again. It isnt nice to be called cheats by those who do not know the full story. Frankly I doubt if we even know the full story yet. You say about the £5m in the accounts, this would make little dent into the debts which were allowed to run up by those running the club. Pompey fans had several collections to repay some of the charities who lost money, while £4m from the sale of one player was allowed to be siphoned off by an owner.

    We have been lied to, mistreated, deceived and neglected by those who should protect football clubs. All we can do is support our club and hope the Trust can put the pride back. None of us are unaware of the fact local businesses have lost money, and we are unable to do anything at all to make recompense. I am sorry other clubs fans dont like us much at the moment, but I hope that the mess that was made of our club can in some way prevent any other fan having to go through the nightmare of the last few years we have suffered.

    I wouldn't wish this on ANYONE.

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  10. Some really unfair (bordering on ignorant) points in the article (and some hilarious responses from saints fans posing as Pompey fans). I won’t touch on points other have already made about some of our fans looking down on other clubs (but as has already been said, what club doesn’t have them? Does your club not have any fans like that?) but will address a few other points

    1. I assume the signing of the players who "couldn't agree a deal with a club that gets 18K crowds" refers to Williamson. There's a lot of BS spouted about this deal. The reason he didn't re-sign for Sheff Utd is because he was wanted by a Championship club who were offering him more money than you were (don't forget you wanted him to take a substantial pay cut from what he was on last year). The move fell through because of a change in manager at the NPC club leaving him high and dry with no club as the season started.
    2. You acknowledge that it’s the administrators who are currently running the club. “Pompey” have no say in how it’s run and what deals are signed. This is down to Trevor Birch of court appointed administrators PKF. If you believe it’s being badly run by all means castigate them but the club itself can’t do much about it, can it? Like the point about the club sitting on £6m – it’s being used by the administrators. The CVA has been agreed by the creditors and it’s a crying shame that local businesses will lose out on money owed but you can’t simply say “OK, let’s pay a bigger percentage to certain creditors”. Every unsecured creditor gets the same deal. Of course, if we didn’t have to pay football creditors 100% and bigger slices to former owners (money that is secured against the club after a loan to a previous owner who possibly didn’t exist remember, NOT money that went into the club) then the local businesses could receive more of their money back.
    3. You’re correct in saying that our points deductions have been nowhere near those received by Luton or Bournemouth. Do you know why? It’s because the offences we’ve been penalised for are different to those other clubs. Do you seriously not understand the difference?
    4. Let’s hope your owner never DOES pull out and sell to a foreign owner who secures a loan to someone else on the club and then spends the next four or five years pillaging every penny he can from Bramall Lane. Let’s hope he doesn’t send a lawyer from Israel into the club to sell players on deadline day and transfer the money out of the country, or stiff charities that he promised to pay out of his own pocket leaving the fans to club together to pay them back. Let’s hope so because if it did happen you might then understand just how it feels

    James, Pompey fan

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  11. I'm a Reading fan and in all the years of supporting the club I've never been more baffled by Pompey fans and their sense of superiority.

    They've got one of the worst stadiums around and really don't have that great a history.

    Yet all the ones I've met, and that's a good few, have talked about Reading with a sense of pity in their voice, due entirely to the fact that Reading aren't a "big club like Portsmouth".

    They've achieved very little, but have an entirely misplaced sense of where the club lies in the great scheme of things, which, like my own club, is nowhere.

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    1. Achieved very little...from a Reading fan that really is funny!

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  12. I am a Saints fan, I admit it, and what annoys me is that when our holding company went into admin(the Club never was) for a "drop in the ocean" amount compared with what Pompey have owed everyone over three admins, we did what I considered was the right thing and got rid of what big earners that we had and generally played youngsters. We paid for it with relegation to League One. Pompey have continually signed players on half-decent wages in a "quality over quantity" effort to "stay competitive" instead of playing their "kids". This is a slap in the face for anyone owed money by the club over their three admins, (total approaching £200M, including £80M to HMRC, not to mention local businesses and charities) just because they still misguidedly think of themselves as a "massive club". Even their local MP was asking for special treatment for the club, and then campaigning against tax avoidance!! Delusion on Portsea Island is the biggest industry!

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  13. Winchester Pompey3 January 2013 at 16:36

    It is an interesting read Ian.
    As you can see from the above, most of the responses you will receive sadly will be from a handful of hypocritical obsessed Southampton fans. This will dilute any discussion or debate but is sadly what we are used to on our own message boards, twitter and the like.

    Anyway, as I said an interesting read. Beware tarring all fans through the comments of a few on social media and I am sure that was not your intention here, but it is hard to avoid.
    Not got the time to address all your points, but some thoughts...

    I have supported Pompey since the mid 80s, ups and downs, so of course enjoyed the good times. FA Cup win, Wembley trips, some great wins in the premiership, European trips etc....this also means I do not think anything is unfair now or worry about sympathy from anyone. I also know full well that supporters of any club in our shoes would have enjoyed these times without questioning things.
    How we have got from there to here is a very long complicated story (see investigative articles from a fan called Mike Hall if you really have the time and inclination :-) )

    I certainly don't go in for claims of being a big club, best fans and all that bollocks and very few Pompey fans do. Arguments on attendances,biggest club, loudest fans and this sort of thing seem to be an unfortunate side effect of message boards, social media etc, and alas most clubs seem to have keyboard warriers who get off on this sort of thing.

    Personally, I am really enjoying League 1 as I knew I would. Have been to some great clubs etc, met great opposition fans. Pompey are where they currently deserve to be for reasons on and off the pitch. Another relegation in one form or another is inevitable and we will deserve to be where we end up. But I, as with most of our fans will get on with it, and enjoy themselves and certainly not belittle or mock any team we play or their supporters.

    Our player recruitment has baffled me throughout this season and I would rather have thrown the youngsters in / gone for non league prospects / few loanees etc. Not sure the administrator has covered himself in glory with this or various other things throughout. Personal opinion is we have a very top heavy wage bill with 3 or 4 stupidly high earners (Howard, Williamson, McLeod) offset by the rest of the squad on below average L1 wages. This policy has clearly failed and should be abandoned asap. Currently wealthier supporters are funding the club with money I think would have been far better used if and when the Supporters Trust get ownership.

    If any good is to come out of any of this, its that the FA / FL takes the opportunity to really tighten up the controls and tests they have in place on who can take ownership and / or get involved in running a football club.

    Also, that some sort of consistency is found re punishment for these sort of situations. I, and most Pompey fans, have no probs with the various points deductions we have received or if we receive further punishment, but as your blog clearly state there is no consistency. It is also open for discussion who a points deduction punishment actually hits and punishes but that is another debate.
    Oh, and lets lose the obscene football creditors rule!

    Personally, I am fully behind the Pompey Trust and whether it be continuing the long road to rescuing and retrieving the current club, or the start of a continuation club in non league know that this is the only way the club can be turned round. Chainrai (previous owner) or another potless 'fake sheikh' sugar daddy would just continue the vicious circle we are in and would be the last straw for me and many Pompey fans.

    Football is in a depressing murky state and I personally think Pompey are not the only ones with problems that will rely on their supporters to get them out of a very very big hole.


    Good luck for the rest of the season.

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  14. Mr Reading Fan, you have been very lucky in having a decent owner who backed your nice shiny stadium.

    Our history is undoubtably checkered. We have been through the mires before, but have also been back-to-back football league champions, a feat which few have achieved. (1948/49 and 49/50 seasons) A while back, I accept, but it was you who mentioned history! ;o)

    We have had several attempts to get a nice shiny stadium, all have failed - the most crucial one failed due to Brent Geese! There have been a couple of plans since then, and the latest was to turn the pitch and develop 2 stands.

    Your club I think has been in existence longer than Pompey, but without the same success until recently. I hope you manage to stay in the PL.

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  15. "I am a Saints fan, I admit it, and what annoys me is that when our holding company went into admin(the Club never was)..........

    is a slap in the face for anyone owed money by the club over their three admins, (total approaching £200M, including £80M to HMRC"

    PMSL. Typical saints (scummer) propoganda or just basic ignorance. Saints "holding company" did indeed go into administration and not the actual club. But what this fan fails to mention is that the club's turnover accounted for 99% of the holding company's turnover. Putting the holding co. into admin was a desperate attempt to cheat (sorry, avoid) the club itself going into admin and to avoid a ten point penalty. Nothing more, nothing less.

    On the subject of Pompey's debt being close to £200m - again, PMSL. The initial debt when we went into admin in the PL was £130m - and that figure was inflated by the owners pet administrator Andronikou to avoid HMRC having a 25% share of the debt that would have enabled them to block the owners plans to grab as much cash as he could himself at the expense of the unsecured creditors (local businesses etc). Our debt to HMRC was around £22m - bad enough in itself but again, run up by Chainrai deliberately as part of the plan to put the club into admin. And of the £130m total "debt" almost £70m was to Chainrai, Gaydamak and Al Fahimfor various "loans" that the club never saw or for the land around the ground that Gaydamak secured at an inflated value of £30m as security when he sold the club to al fahim on an instalment basis. Add in £24m in football creditors (which have all been paid from the parachute payments) and it's hard to see where the scummer moron gets his £80m owed to HMRC from. The second administration figure of £60m included debt not paid from the first admin (the £130m figure) but the saints fan is either deliberately trying to mislead you with his figure or is too stupid to realise that it included the original debt figure. Let's be generous and give him the benefit of the doubt and go for the stupid option

    James, Pompey Fan

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    1. What were the finacial ramifications of your first admin in 1998? Was nobody owed anything from that? Or is that too far back in history to count? You seem to be just talking about the last two. As far as accusing Saints of cheating, your post has proved that people involved in your admins have taken it to an Olympic standard

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    2. It was Barclays who put the holding company into administration not the club, they didn't get a monkey's about the club let alone the ten point penalty.

      The administrator tried to weedle out of the points penalty but I won't take any moralising from Pompey fans. Portsmouth the club that went into administration WHILST STILL IN THE PREM. Portsmouth the club that followed this up by paying £20k a week to many of it's squad and then GOING INTO ADMINISTRATION AGAIN. Portsmouth the club that is still in administration but has been outbidding other L1 teams.

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  17. A saints fan wrote "What were the finacial ramifications of your first admin in 1998? Was nobody owed anything from that? Or is that too far back in history to count? You seem to be just talking about the last two. As far as accusing Saints of cheating, your post has proved that people involved in your admins have taken it to an Olympic standard"
    Our admin in 1998 did indeed cost some people money. However, you neglect to mention what caused it. It was caused by our then owner Martin Gregory (son of the late Jim Gregory who inherited his father's businesses) securing debts onto the club to try and prop up his late father's chain of garages which he'd run into the ground when he took them over. Once again, people suffered because of the clubs owners looking after their own interestes rathe than the club or creditors.

    But it's indeed nice to see this saints fan flat out refusing to answer the points about his own club trying to cheat their way out of a ten point deduction or his blatant lying to try and spread a complete and utter load of Bo***cks about the amount of debt Pompey had and who was owed what amount. Nice lying scummer, why post it if it isn't true? Because you were blatantly lying, weren't you?

    James, Pompey fan

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    1. James, you've ripped off all comers to the tune of £130m+. You'be paid not a single penny to anyone so attempting to be righteous just makes you look a cunt.

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    2. James. You have refused to answer any of the other issues that I raised in my post. All that you have done is queried and tried to rubbish my figures' The FACTS are:-
      1) Your club has been in admin THREE times for whatever reason. See a pattern??
      2) Your club has ripped off MILLIONS of pounds from local businesses, charities and the public purse (Tax) not once, but THREE times.
      3) Instead of cutting your cloth to suit you have paid decent wages to a series of players that your position didn`t justify instead of playing youth like most other clubs in your position have done.
      4) Yes, the Saints holding company was probably set up for the reasons that you mentioned but it didn`t work, whereas you have already said that AA inflated/doctored figures. Cheating at it`s highest. I saw fans asking for AA`s autograph - a hero! Above all else, I find a Pompey fan being all self-righteous about cheating incredibly amazing and typical of the delusion that pervades Fratton Park.

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  18. "James, you've ripped off all comers to the tune of £130m+. You'be paid not a single penny to anyone so attempting to be righteous just makes you look a cunt."

    Sorry mate but you simply don't understand what's happend at the club (or seemingly read any of the posts I've made above). When we went into admin while in the PL the debt was quoted as £130m but the actual amount we really "owed" was nowhere near that figure. The administrator that our cunt of an owner chose inflated the debt figure to a level that would block HMRC from having 25% of the debt which would have enabled them to block the proposals that Chainrai wanted to railroad through. Of that £130m, £70m was supposedly owed to Chainrai, Gaydamak and Al Fahim. Chainrai claimed to be owed around £30m, £17m of which was for a loan that he made not to the club but to a previous owner (al Faraj who no-one ever saw) and whose default on the repayments to this "loan" (it was a loan betwen two BVI based companies and so untraceable - not at all suspicious eh?) allowed him to take over the club in the first place in lieu of payment. Gaydamak was "owed" £30m for the land around the ground that he kept as security when he sold the club to Al Faraj - a piece of land that was worth £5m tops and has been challenged legally as to whether he ever had any legal right to it anyway. So the £130m that we've "ripped off" from people isn't actually £130m at all and the people who were ripped off were part of a systematic plan by Chainrai to take as much money for himself as he could and fuck everyone else - charities, local businesses etc. And to say we've never paid a penny back is wrong too. Football creditors have already received around £24m paid in full.

    I understand your perception BHA army because what you've said is how some of the history of this sad period in my club has been reported but if you read this post please understand that it's Chainrai (and to a lesser extent Gaydamak) who have done the ripping off

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    1. "It's never your fault, it's never you're fault, always the victim, it's never you're fault"

      Pull the other one, you loved the good times, lapping up the FA Cup and European rides but don't want to face up to things now they've taken a turn for the worse.

      And I must have missed the fact you've actually paid some money back, £24m you say? To whom? I can't find anything other than the usual empty promises and buck-passing.

      "If only it weren't for those faaaaaacking scummahs..."

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    2. "Football creditors have already received around £24m paid in full."

      And the only reason football creditors (except Mr Kanu, who's case is still outstanding I believe) got paid is because the money was paid to them directly by the football authorities from the parachute payments rather than disappearing into the black hole of Portsea.

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  19. I JUST WANT MY CLUB BACK..........WHATEVER DIVISION.

    PLAY UP POMPEY

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  20. the local businesses are fans and still come out and support our club

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  21. were so arrogant were having to buy the club ourselves

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    1. Not yet. Don`t count your chickens......

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    2. Why bitter? Just realistic. I can`t think of one single reason to be bitter or jealous of a club about to be relegated to Div 4 with massive debts, a ricketty old ground, no training facilities (Pompey train on playing fields in Southampton), and small crowds -compare Saints and Pompey in L1.

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  22. Breville3 wrote on January 2013 18:22:
    "It's never your fault, it's never you're fault, always the victim, it's never you're fault.
    Pull the other one, you loved the good times, lapping up the FA Cup and European rides but don't want to face up to things now they've taken a turn for the worse."

    It's hard to have a constructive argument with rival fans without it turning into a slang match, but what can you do.

    Firstly it baffles me when fans are lambasted for enjoying success. Yes no one can deny it was bought, but what success in football isn't bought to some extent these days.

    I think what riles some Pompey fans with articles & comments such as these is that they are often based on what they've heard on BBC or SKY and are not fully researched. Anyone posting here must be interested in the story so why not read Micah Hall's recent articles for a wider picture.

    As with Breville's comment above saying we don't want to face things; being on the verge of a community buyout says differently.

    If we must slag each other off, I seem to recall a match to 'help save Southampton FC' being called off because of lack of interest from supporters ;)

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    1. "Yes no one can deny it was bought" I think you will find a awful lot of pompey fans who will not admit that the FA Cup win was bought using money you did not have.

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    2. Would that be the game cancelled due to them finding a billionaire buyer??

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  23. A saints fan wrote:

    "James. You have refused to answer any of the other issues that I raised in my post. All that you have done is queried and tried to rubbish my figures' The FACTS are:-
    1) Your club has been in admin THREE times for whatever reason. See a pattern??
    2) Your club has ripped off MILLIONS of pounds from local businesses, charities and the public purse (Tax) not once, but THREE times.
    3) Instead of cutting your cloth to suit you have paid decent wages to a series of players that your position didn`t justify instead of playing youth like most other clubs in your position have done.
    4) Yes, the Saints holding company was probably set up for the reasons that you mentioned but it didn`t work, whereas you have already said that AA inflated/doctored figures. Cheating at it`s highest. I saw fans asking for AA`s autograph - a hero! Above all else, I find a Pompey fan being all self-righteous about cheating incredibly amazing and typical

    I did query and rubbish your "facts" because as I demonstrated in my post they weren't "facts" at all but blatant lies that you'd posted to try and propogate a number of untruths that you want to perpetuate to try and hammer Pompey as much as possible. They were outright lies so anyone with even half a brain must want to ask themselves why you need to tell such untruths. Taking your other points in order:

    1.Yes, we've been in admin three times. In 1998 because Martin Gregory took out loans secured on the club to try and prop up another business, in the PL as part of a business strategy that Balram Chainrai pursued to try and recover money owed to him by our previous owners father and most recently as a result of the arrest of the owner Chainrai sold the club to (who was deemed to be fit and proper by the FL) causing all our parent company to collapse and the funsing we were receiving to be withdrawn. See, you're right for once - there is a pattern. Dodgy owners
    2. Ripped off money three times - see point one.
    3. Playing youth. Most Pompey fans would have been happy to see us develop a better youth sructure and try and blood those into the first team. The fact that our owner and administrator decided to pursue the infamous quality over quantity approach isn't something the fans can be blamed for and much as saints fans seem to struggle to understand the concept, paying a 20 man squad more money each can quite easily cost the same as paying a 35 man squad less money each. There's a total wage bill and you can cut it any way you want
    4. I'm not being self righteous about cheating, I'm trying to redress the balance of the blatant lies you're writing. Yes, you're right Andronikou doctored the debt total to favour Chainrai - but that didn't favour the club. Just favoured a dodgy owner who cared nothing for the club, fans, creditors or charities. Yes,a couple of Pompey fans asked for his autograph - but a couple doesn't equate to the whole fan base. It's just a sad reflection of a celebrity obsessed culture where anyone is famous for 15 minutes.

    I find it laughable that so many saints fans who profess they have no interest in Pompey have created a 1500 page thread on their own messageboard about us and that I find myself debating our recent history with one on a Sheffield United board. Why on earth are you on here? The article concerns my club so surely I have a right to give my views but what the hell are you doing on here. Obsessed with all things Pompey.

    Thanks for letting me post these views Blades fans, good luck for the season and hope to play you in a higher division in a few years time

    James, Pompey fan

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    1. "Yes, you're right Andronikou doctored the debt total to favour Chainrai - but that didn't favour the club."

      Actually it did as without it HMRC would have been able to block the CVA and the result would either have been liquidation or exiting without a CVA (not that a point penalty from that would have made much difference).

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  24. Judging Pompey fans by the actions or words of a handfull can be misleading. Now if I were to do the reverse then my view of Sheffield United fans would be that they are a bunch of nutters who will jump out of the crowd at Fratton Park and chin the linesman. Doesn't do to have to small a sample on which to base opinions.

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  25. When we were approaching this season in League 1 we were reliably informed by the media that the average wage for League 1 players was between 1K and 2K per week. So when we eventually signed some players on the eve of the season we supporters were all under the impression that that was what they were being paid. It's only later that it has leaked out that allegedly 2 players are on 8K a week and several more on about 4K or 5K. Well all I can say is that every one of them to a man has been short changing the club and the supporters because from what I have seen there isn't one of them that's worth £800 a week let alone £8000. And that is fro someone taking home about £300 a week.

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  26. Here we go again. As someone who used to live in the Portsmouth area and still has contacts there I can only agree with the blog and have seen before the reaction to any criticism with “scummer moron” type comments. Everybody knows the club have been shafted by a succession of owners, but what really gets me are the following whines/themes I hear:
    1) 'The FAPPT should have prevented “x” or “y” taking over'. Firstly there's a gross misunderstanding what the test can do from a purely legal point of view and secondly, if they hadn't taken over you can assume “z” would have done. The club may have gone pop earlier.
    2) 'The debt isn't really £130 million, it was inflated, blah, blah.' The first CVA was due to be paid over 5 years at 20p in the pound. Not a penny has been paid yet, and that 20p has since been diluted by the second CVA to effectively 0.4p in the pound. If you are one of the many local creditors I don't suppose you give a toss about the total figure, but might be upset that the club still has money to pay for luxury hotels on away trips. If you are a taxpayer you should be upset for that HMRC debt as well. Incidentally, there are still some football creditors owed money too...
    3) 'The fans' takeover.' Is it buggery; it depends entirely on money (probably loans) from property developers, and where have we heard that before, both in Portsmouth's own history and along the coast in Brighton. It's an admirable thing to do, no-one is denying that, but it is, in the circumstances, completely unrealistic. Not only is it under-resourced but a lot of the money is disappearing in the black hole of legal and administrator's fees, let alone the wages of various short term signings who aren't at the club for the glory, that's for sure.
    I just hope money is left over for a phoenix club and to improve the facilities at Barton's Road or Moneyfields because that's where I'd put my money if I bet on football outcomes.
    4) 'We should be allowed to be competitive.' Meaningless rubbish. You are as competitive as you can afford, and now income, parachute payments and the ability to pile on debt is no longer available that's your level of competitiveness.

    Sue

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  27. Leibherrs dodgy money? Building a crane empire, dodgy?

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    1. But I thought that he was a tank driver during the war......apparently....

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